docno|NN =|SYM "|'' lists-|NN 003|CD -|: 2137010|CD "|'' received|VBD =|SYM "|'' Tue|NNP May|NNP 18|CD 18:52:44|NN 1993|CD EST|NNP "|'' sent|VBD =|SYM "|'' Tue|NNP ,|, 18|CD May|NNP 1993|CD 15:31:15|NN -|: 0500|CD (|( CDT|NNP )|) "|'' name|NN =|SYM "|'' Rick|NNP Troth|NNP "|'' email|NN =|SYM "|'' TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu|NN "|'' subject|JJ =|SYM "|'' Re|NNP :|: CHARSET|NNP considerations|NNS "|'' id|NN =|SYM "|'' 01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM|NN "|'' inreplyto|NN =|SYM "|'' scs@adam.mit.edu|NN "|'' To|TO :|: scs@adam.mit.edu|NN ,|, pine-info@cac.washington.edu|NN ,|, ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM|NN Cc|NNP :|: dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu|NN On|IN Fri|NNP ,|, 14|CD May|NNP 93|CD 17:29:24|NN -|: 0400|CD Steve|NNP said|VBD :|: >|NN In|IN <|NN 9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu|NN >|NN ,|, Rick|NNP wrote|VBD :|: >|NN >|NN Any|DT user|NN of|IN Pine|NNP 3.05|CD (|( and|CC as|RB far|RB as|IN I|PRP can|MD tell|VB 3.07|CD or|CC 2|CD .|. x|SYM )|) >|NN >|NN can|MD shoot|VB themself|NN in|IN the|DT foot|NN (|( head|NN if|IN you|PRP prefer|VBP )|) by|IN setting|VBG >|NN >|NN character-set|JJ =|SYM Zeldas|NNP _|NN private|JJ _|NN codepage|NN .|. 
>|NN This|DT is|VBZ almost|RB certainly|RB a|DT bad|JJ idea|NN ,|, ...|... 

Although|IN I|PRP used|VBD this|DT to|TO defend|VB my|PRP$ action|NN of|IN having|VBG used|VBD an|DT illegitimate|JJ CHARSET|NNP ,|, I|PRP do|VBP NOT|NNP think|VBP that|IN all|DT "|'' user|NN can|MD shoot|VB themself|NN in|IN the|DT foot|NN "|'' features|NNS are|VBP bad|JJ .|. 
Specifically|RB ,|, I|PRP feel|VBP (|( quite|RB strongly|RB )|) that|IN the|DT user|NN should|MD be|VB able|JJ to|TO specify|VB any|DT old|JJ charset|NN and|CC have|VBP display|NN at|IN least|JJS attempted|VBN at|IN the|DT other|JJ end|NN .|. 

The|DT long|JJ term|NN solution|NN is|VBZ ,|, of|IN course|NN ,|, to|TO map|VB between|IN "|'' character|NN sets|NNS "|'' (|( which|WDT the|DT use|NN should|MD have|VB control|VB over|IN )|) and|CC "|'' charsets|NNS "|'' (|( which|WDT the|DT user|NN should|MD leave|VB alone|RB )|) .|. 

My|PRP$ only|RB request|NN of|IN Pine|NNP from|IN all|PDT this|DT noise|NN is|VBZ that|IN Pine|NNP NOT|NNP LABEL|NNP messages|NNS of|IN Content-|NNP Type|NNP :|: text|NN /|NN plain|JJ .|. 
(|( this|DT may|MD be|VB counter|RB to|TO RFC|NNP 1341|CD ;|: is|VBZ it|PRP ?|. )|) 

>|NN >|NN Should|MD the|DT Pine|NNP developers|NNS remove|VB this|DT feature|NN ?|. 

No.|NN 

>|NN charset|NN is|VBZ an|DT octet-based|JJ encoding|VBG used|VBN during|IN >|NN message|NN transfer|NN ;|: it|PRP need|VBP bear|NN no|DT relation|NN to|TO the|DT composing|VBG or|CC >|NN viewing|VBG character|NN sets|NNS .|. 

Right|RB .|. 
I|PRP maintain|VBP that|IN CHARSET|NNP specification|NN should|MD be|VB omitted|VBN when|WRB feasible|JJ .|. 
This|DT is|VBZ because|IN there|EX are|VBP such|JJ things|NNS as|IN gateways|NNS which|WDT translate|VBP the|DT SMTP|NNP octet-stream|JJ into|IN anything|NN .|. 

There|EX are|VBP two|CD goals|NNS :|: 1|CD )|) to|TO be|VB able|JJ to|TO specify|VB new|JJ and|CC /|NN or|CC extended|VBN character|NN sets|NNS (|( and|CC mark-ups|JJ and|CC other|JJ extensions|NNS to|TO plain|JJ text|NN )|) and|CC 2|CD )|) to|TO use|VB "|'' plain|JJ text|NN "|'' (|( in|IN mail|NN )|) as|IN a|DT transport|NN medium|NN .|. 
For|IN the|DT former|NN ,|, use|NN Base|NNP 64|CD encoding|VBG when|WRB needed|VBN .|. 
For|IN the|DT latter|NN ,|, do|VBP n't|RB label|VB the|DT text|NN "|'' ASCII|NNP "|'' or|CC any|DT other|JJ codepoint|NN mapping|NN if|IN there|EX 's|VBZ any|DT way|NN on|IN earth|NN that|IN it|PRP might|MD get|VB translated|VBN by|IN a|DT gateway|NN .|. 

I|PRP do|VBP n't|RB think|VB this|DT is|VBZ making|VBG sense|NN and|CC I|PRP ca|MD n't|RB find|VB the|DT words|NNS .|. 
Steve|NNP apparently|RB has|VBZ :|: charset|NN -|: vs-|NN character|NN _|NN set|VBN .|. 

Plain|NNP text|NN is|VBZ defined|VBN differently|RB from|IN system|NN to|TO system|NN .|. 
On|IN UNIX|NNP ,|, plain|JJ text|NN is|VBZ ASCII|NNP (|( now|RB ISO-|NNP 8859|CD -|: 1|CD )|) with|IN lines|NNS delimited|JJ by|IN NL|NNP (|( actually|RB LF|NNP )|) .|. 
On|IN NT|NNP ,|, plain|JJ text|NN is|VBZ 16|CD bits|NNS wide|JJ (|( so|IN I|PRP hear|VBP )|) .|. 
That|DT ai|VBP n't|RB ASCII|NNP ,|, though|IN we|PRP could|MD be|VB the|DT high-order|JJ 8|CD bits|NNS for|IN much|RB of|IN plain|JJ text|NN processing|NN ,|, and|CC that|DT 's|VBZ fine|NN by|IN me|PRP .|. 
(|( memory|NN is|VBZ cheap|JJ )|) On|IN VM|NNP /|NN CMS|NNP ,|, plain|JJ text|NN is|VBZ EBCDIC|NNP (|( now|RB CodePage|NNP 1047|CD )|) and|CC records|NNS are|VBP handled|VBN by|IN the|DT filesystem|NN out-of-band|JJ of|IN the|DT data|NNS ,|, so|RB NL|NNP (|( and|CC LF|NNP and|CC CR|NNP )|) are|VBP n't|RB sacred|JJ characters|NNS .|. 
Now|RB ...|... "|'' mail|NN is|VBZ plain-text|JJ ,|, not|RB ASCII|NNP "|'' .|. 

>|NN In|IN the|DT most|RBS general|JJ case|NN ,|, a|DT message|NN will|MD >|NN be|VB composed|VBN using|VBG some|DT native|JJ character|NN set|VBD ,|, translated|VBN >|NN automatically|RB to|TO a|DT MIME-registered|NNP charset|NN ,|, and|CC translated|VBN at|IN the|DT >|NN other|JJ end|NN into|IN a|DT native|JJ display|NN character|NN set|VBN .|. 

Right|RB !|. 
99|CD times|NNS out|IN of|IN 100|CD you|PRP do|VBP n't|RB care|VB ,|, but|CC there|RB 's|VBZ that|IN 1|CD %|NN of|IN the|DT time|NN when|WRB you|PRP 've|VBP called|VBN it|PRP US-ASCII|NNP and|CC it|PRP 's|VBZ NOT|NNP anymore|RB ,|, although|IN it|PRP *|NN is|VBZ *|NN still|RB legitimate|JJ "|'' plain|JJ text|NN "|'' .|. 

>|NN (|( You|PRP 'll|MD notice|VB that|IN I|PRP reinforce|VBP this|DT distinction|NN in|IN my|PRP$ >|NN own|JJ head|NN and|CC in|IN this|DT message|NN by|IN using|VBG the|DT terms|NNS "|'' character|NN set|VBN "|'' >|NN and|CC "|'' charset|NN "|'' noninterchangeably|RB .|. )|) 

Thanks|NNS .|. 
That|DT helps|VBZ .|. 

>|NN The|DT charset|NN situation|NN is|VBZ much|JJ like|IN the|DT canonical|JJ CRLF|NNP situation|NN :|: >|NN the|DT fact|NN that|IN the|DT canonical|JJ representation|NN is|VBZ identical|JJ to|TO some|DT >|NN but|CC not|RB all|DT of|IN the|DT available|JJ local|JJ representations|NNS guarantees|NNS >|NN misunderstandings|NNS .|. 

Right|RB !|. 
And|CC this|DT thinking|NN ,|, carried|VBD into|IN MIME|NNP (|( thus|RB this|DT should|MD be|VB kicked|VBN BACK|NNP TO|TO the|DT IETF-|NNP 822|CD list|NN ,|, but|CC I|PRP refrain|VB )|) ,|, shows|VBZ up|RB in|IN the|DT use|NN of|IN CHARSET|NNP =|SYM ISO-|NNP 8859|CD -|: 1|CD rather|RB than|IN CHARACTER|NNP _|NN SET|NNP =|SYM Latin-|NNP 1|CD .|. 
If|IN you|PRP specify|VB "|'' Latin-|NNP 1|CD "|'' ,|, then|RB you|PRP can|MD (|( must|MD ;|: I|PRP 'm|VBP arguing|VBG for|IN a|DT definition|NN here|RB ,|, not|RB an|DT explanation|NN )|) assume|VB that|IN SMTP|NNP will|MD carry|VB it|PRP as|IN ISO-|NNP 8859|CD -|: 1|CD ,|, BUT|NNP THE|DT RECEIVING|NNP (|( or|CC sending|VBG )|) HOST|NNP MIGHT|NNP NOT|NNP .|. 
(|( and|CC yes|UH ,|, sad|JJ but|CC true|JJ ,|, any|DT SMTPs|NNP will|MD strip|VB the|DT high|JJ bit|NN )|) 

>|NN To|TO be|VB sure|JJ ,|, automated|VBN selection|NN of|IN and|CC translation|NN to|TO a|DT registered|JJ >|NN MIME|NNP charset|NN is|VBZ a|DT non-trivial|JJ task|NN ,|, ...|... 

Yes|UH .|. 
Which|WDT is|VBZ why|WRB I|PRP want|VBP routers|NNS ,|, gateways|NNS ,|, and|CC all|DT MTAs|NNP (|( mail|NN transfer|NN agents|NNS )|) to|TO stay|VB out|IN of|IN it|PRP .|. 
That|DT 's|VBZ why|WRB I|PRP ask|VBP that|IN (|( today|NN ,|, 1993|CD )|) we|PRP NOT|NNP LABEL|NNP true|JJ plain|JJ text|NN as|IN US-ASCII|NNP /|NN ISO-|NNP 8859|CD -|: 1|CD .|. 
Just|RB leave|VB it|PRP alone|RB and|CC let|VB it|PRP default|NN at|IN the|DT receiving|VBG end|NN .|. 

>|NN and|CC mailers|NNS which|WDT are|VBP trying|VBG >|NN to|TO adopt|VB MIME|NNP right|RB away|RB can|MD not|RB be|VB faulted|VBN for|IN deferring|VBG >|NN development|NN of|IN such|JJ functionality|NN for|IN a|DT while|NN .|. 

And|CC let|VB me|PRP reiterate|NN that|IN I|PRP 'm|VBP not|RB mad|JJ at|IN the|DT Pine|NNP developers|NNS (|( nor|CC the|DT MIME|NNP developers|NNS ;|: not|RB mad|JJ at|IN anyone|NN ,|, just|RB trying|VBG to|TO push|VB a|DT point|NN that|IN I|PRP think|VBP is|VBZ important|JJ and|CC has|VBZ been|VBN missed|VBN )|) .|. 
I|PRP 'm|VBP very|RB pleased|VBN with|IN Pine|NNP .|. 
It|PRP can|MD almost|RB replace|VB RiceMAIL|NNP .|. 

Steve|NNP ,|, it|PRP 's|VBZ obvious|JJ from|IN your|PRP$ distinction|NN between|IN character|NN set|VBN (|( set|NN of|IN characters|NNS )|) and|CC charset|NN (|( encoding|VBG of|IN characters|NNS )|) that|IN you|PRP understand|VBP this|DT issue|NN .|. 
Thanks|NNS for|IN making|VBG up|RP and|CC using|VBG those|DT labels|NNS !|. 

>|NN Steve|NNP Summit|NNP >|NN scs@adam.mit.edu|NN 

--|: Rick|NNP Troth|NNP <|NN troth@rice.edu|NN >|NN ,|, Rice|NNP University|NNP ,|, Information|NNP Systems|NNPS 

